I'm currently at 201 Hit Rating - 6.13% hit. With my 3/3 Focused Aim and 1% Draenei racial, that puts me at 10.13% to hit - 2% over the hit cap.
And yet all my stuff with hit on it is best-in-slot. And there's no way in hell I'm dropping Focused Aim - anywhere else I'd put it is not really a DPS upgrade, and the pushback resistance is invaluable.
Plus, the next two pieces of gear I want - Cloak of the Gushing Wound and Mobius Band - are both laden with Hit, but are better than my other alternatives in the slot.
This sucks. :|
Required SES Reading
- We're on the Road to Naxxramas City... (Pre-Naxxramas Gear List!)
- Riding the Saronite Edge (375 to 450 Engineering Guide!)
- Gaze through the Stabilized Effort Scope... (About my UI)
- math :V (justification for Arcane over Aimed)
- The "New" Marksmanship (Theories about my rotation)
- "wild quiver or improved steady shot" (A very commonly google'd question)
- A Thesis on Marks Raiding in Wrath by Rilgon Arcsinh (My rationalization of my arguments)
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- Rilgon Arcsinh
- Hunter. Marksman. Engineer. Diplomat. Instructor. I am these things, and more. I'm also arrogant as hell, and stubborn as they come, hence why I cling to a dying spec for PVE.
33 comments:
hows your rotation?
i respecced to bm yesterday...
mm is sucking to pve =(
one thing, do you "auto target" a mob when youre spamming some skill and hit him without your will?
I hate you.
No, really, I hate you.
Though, I was in that exact same situation all through BT/MH. I couldn't take Gorefiend's cloak just because it had so much hit...
/pout
dont worry about dropping focused aim too much, because (depending on the pushback) normal hit rating is a bigger upgrade than it anyways.
focused aim's hit rating doesnt get applied to your pet, but your hit rating from gear does.
so if the gear is better, and you get more hit rating, you should gradually switch out focused aim with other talents (unless the pushback dps is greater than the pet hitting 3% more often and whatever small dps you get from the other talent)
-admon
@RoizDoci: Lead with Serpent, then Steady, Steady, Chimera, Steady, Steady, Aimed. And I don't spam.
@Neggles:If you'd just go run some Heroics, dear, you'd be in the same situation. :P
@Admon: I'm not sure what I'd put the points into if I DID drop Careful Aim. Improved Barrage, maybe, but...
I'm in agreement with Admon - I plan on slowly getting rid of those points as my gear is getting more solid. Three points can help out anywhere, and honestly, how often do you get pushed back? Very rarely. Those three points would be more useful increasing your armor penetration or attack power, or any other damage that spans across all of your shots. I would only spec for the pushback points if you absolutely know that the boss you're up against is going to cause problems. On another note, could you check my steady shot speed for me? 15% quiver, 2.47% haste. I got 1.7 second cast speed. Right?
Don't drop Careful Aim, but DROP Focused Aim. Focused Aim. As to what you could pick up.
I guess, I'd suggest either put +2pts in Improved Barrage, if I remember right that will give you an immediate and FREE +8% Crit on your Aimed Shot.
There is also Piercing Shots, but ArPen is as hotly debated as anything these days.
I'd suggest one final idea. What about maxing Rapid Recuperation, then +1 in Endurance Training.
I know that your pet isn't as critical as a BM pet, but hey! it's still extra DPS and that's not bad. And having extra pet health means a little bit longer DPS!! :)
Just some thoughts. (OH! BTW- thx for highlighting my error re: Hit Caps. It's fixed. :)
how often do you get pushed back?
Often enough to make me LOVE Focused Aim. (yes I made a typo, it happens)
@Brigwyn: Haven't had my pet die yet, although I will admit that on stuff like Heigan, she sits by my side and provides Focused Fire DPS and Call of the Wild. >_>;
You are really getting hit enough for the pushback to matter? Hunter tank FTW?
Once my gear becomes a little less volatile and I'm not changing things every other day, I'll start taking my points out of Focused Aim. When I'm soloing, my pet is getting hit and when I'm in an instance, the tank is getting hit. Sure, once in a while there's some AoE or something, but I find that points just about anywhere else will be more beneficial. But that's just me, and I'm not MM, so the places I would throw my extra points is clearly different from where you'd throw yours.
What about that "Wild Quiver" talent, is that thing any use? I haven't heard much about it.
@Brajana: It's more in heroics than it is in Naxxramas (though it'll happen in OS, for sure), but there's more than enough AoEs to piss me off if I didn't have 3/3 FA. Only losing .16 seconds on my Steadies (instead of .5) is a life-saver.
And Wild Quiver is atrocious, and I've done several write-ups on that.
I just realized something that we're all retarded for not realizing.
Arcane = RAP * 0.15 + 492
added to weapon damage.
With AP at my level, this is even more powerful than Steady. Steady adds 966 damage, while Arcane adds 998. Add 15% extra damage to that from Improved Arcane? Damn.
I think we overlooked Arcane because it was so shitty at lower ranks, but I really believe we'll see a damage increase if we use Arcane instead of Aimed in our normal rotation. Not to mention it costs less mana.
Aimed = weapon dmg + 408
That's it. Weak. Even with Barrage, it's still crap compared to Arcane. In fact, Aimed is so craptastic, I'm not even going to use it anymore unless they need the debuff.
I urge you to double check my math and sources and whatever else, because I really think I'm on to something. I'll post my spreadsheet stuff when I perfect my ideas.
Forgot to mention for math purposes - my current self-buffed AP is about 3570.
For some reason it didn't work - should be http://www.geocities.com/kellephantmain/crafting.html
Try that one. Work in progress.
Okay...it keeps saying htm instead of html.
There's an l after that. Then it should work. Sorry.
Arcane = RAP * 0.15 + 492
added to weapon damage.
No, no, no!
Arcane does NOT add your weapon damage into it! It ONLY does RAP * 0.15 + 492!
Then how on earth is it doing so much damage?
My non-crit arcane should only hit for 1000. It hits for a lot more than that. =/ I'm very confused. When I get home, I need to go over my logs.
Perhaps it's in the wording -
An instant shot that causes [RAP 8 0.15 + 492] Arcane damage.
Is it implied that there is a normal shot and that it also causes Arcane damage? Because the wording is slightly different on Steady.
A steady shot that causes unmodified weapon damage etc.
Why say unmodified? Why not just say weapon damage? Does Arcane damage modify weapon damage, and that's why they note the "unmodified" with steady??
I have a lot of questions about this. It seems like a waste to use a shot that even your autoshot outdamages with no other perks...making Arcane absolutely useless...which doesn't make sense for it to even exist.
I'm going to play with it and see what kind of average damage it's doing.
I already went over all of this and more in this post:
http://www.stabilizedeffortscope.com/2008/11/new-marksmanship.html
:3
@Rilgon - Sorry, I must have missed the stuff you'd said about Wild Quiver, or else I didn't really know anything about that talent at the time and didn't really pay attention :) I just really looked at it for the first time today. Which is naughty of me, I should learn more about MM even if it's not my thing right now!
I've only done a couple of heroics so far, I'll pay more attention to how much push back I'm experiencing - I don't normally think about it that much because usually when I get hit by something I'm usually focused on other things, like "How can I not get hit anymore?" hehe. Clearly you are much calmer to be able to notice this stuff than I am!
Thanks for all the math works you've done btw, Rilgon! :) Someday I'll start tackling the big stuff like that.
Okay, so if I have 3570 RAP, my Arcane can hit no higher than 1027 unless on Crit, correct? And with the MM talents for Crit and my 3% increase from a meta gem, a crit can be no more than 33% of that 1027 added on - so no more than 1365 total from Arcane. Yes, or am I missing something?
you do understand that even as mm spec, you're pet is still capable of pulling 1k+ dps on a raid boss, right? Your pet is a chunk of your damage that you do NOT want to underperform. Guess which talent doesn't effect pet hit? You guessed it, Focused Aim. Your pet's hit is only affected from your own hit rating, untalented. If anything, you still need more hit, because your pet is still missing attacks. Take points out of Focused Aim and put them somewhere else - efficiency, combat experience, even wild quiver or piercing shots is a better investment than talenting yourself to be over hit cap.
Nevermind, not right..
Going over it again now..
Crit is damage + 100%, so doubled. Double 1027 = 2054. 33% of 2054 = 677.82 (678) so total crit damage of Arcane = 2732
NOW is it right?
you do understand that even as mm spec, you're pet is still capable of pulling 1k+ dps on a raid boss, right?
Uh... no? Mine does, at best, 450 in 10-man raids with an ideal buff spread (+AP, +Str/Agi, Major armor debuff)
Then again, I don't use a cat, and will never use a fucking cat.
Crit is damage + 100%, so doubled. Double 1027 = 2054. 33% of 2054 = 677.82 (678) so total crit damage of Arcane = 2732
NOW is it right?
1027 * 1.05 = 1078.35 * 2.33 = 2512.5555
i really dont understand why you would raid with something that would gimp your own dps, but thats besides the point. pet hit is till unaffected by focused aim. and if your pet is only getting 450, he could be getting more. as mm on a 10 man vault run my scorpid was hitting 850 dps, and my cat in a 25 man naxx will avg about 1k on most boss fights.
my scorpid was hitting 850 dps
They're bugged. Rolling poisons don't count.
And why? Because I play this game to have fun. If I were playing it to be 100% optimal, min/maxing, and hardcore, I wouldn't be an Engineer, I wouldn't be Marksmanship, and I probably wouldn't be playing anymore.
1027 * 1.05 = 1078.35 * 2.33 = 2512.5555
Ehhh?
Explain....
I got C's in math...
1027 is your base Arcane damage
* 1.05 for Ranged Weapon Spec
= 1078.35 (after RWS)
* 2.33 for your 230% crit damage bonus (from Mortal Shots) + your meta (3%)
= 2512.5555
they fixed rolling poisons a long time ago. now poisons only stack based on the hunters current ap values, not the original stack. (which is why if you were to switch aspects during a poison application you would notice the 5stack dot do less damage).
"the pushback resistance is invaluable"
it actually does sound like you are interested in optimizing.
There's a difference between keeping something that's useful because I see no good alternative for it and doing something that I directly disagree with (using a cat) just for the sake of more DPS.
how is it useful when your entire spec could be reworked to do more damage?
as for "disagreeing" with a pet choice, I really don't understand how something like that could be "disagreeable" from an ethical standpoint (which is what you make it sound like it is) in the first place.
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