Apparently BRK thinks that I was attempting to insult him, regardless of my assertions to the contrary in my comments to the posts he's made regarding his Waraxe. Well, while I've asserted it in follow-up comments and I've tried to explain where I'm coming from, I guess it hasn't made an impact. So, for anyone who's reading SES from my posts on BRK's blog, I guess this is for you.
The initial impetus of my questioning of BRK's choice to retain the Waraxe was his statement that it was his "last item from TBC". The way I perceived it, it was almost a complaint. And once I noted that his hit rating was sub-optimal for his talent spec, even for level 80 mobs... it clicked. Kordwar had missed them. Brajana missed them. Hell, I missed them until I was digging on WoWhead. The Savage Cobalt Slicer! The second coming of awesome in a can! Or so I thought.
I was told that the reason BRK was not capping his hit was that he was not missing. "How can this be?" I thought. "You're at 4.80-ish percent hit, and I know you're doing heroics - that's a 1.2% miss rate. There's just no way you're not missing in Heroics unless you're the luckiest person alive!"
And then we're told it's for the Stamina. Stamina, of all things! I can justify having a piece or two of high-stamina gear to switch in on a fight that mandates a set minimum level of HP (like Naj'entus or the like), but to intentionally take a DPS downgrade all the time for Stamina? I couldn't comprehend this. It boggled my mind, and I told BRK as such.
But what I worried about most was not BRK. He's doing fine, if the DPS numbers he's showing are to be believed. 2400 DPS in heroics. Very commendable! I'm only posting about 2000 myself, albeit without my Nesingwary 4000 and with a few pieces from Outland yet. No... what I was worried about was not BRK himself, but those that look up to him.
Someone else in his comments said it best - the more experienced Hunters use BRK as one part of their larger compendium of knowledge and mathematica. That said, less experienced or knowledgeable Hunters may not. It is them I wish to look out for. If anything, I despise misinformation above anything in this world. And when BRK was trying to claim that the Waraxe was superior to the Icier Barbed Spear, a pair of Slicers, or a pair of Fangs of Truth... I had to ensure that anyone who was actually reading knew the truth.
I may be confident in my knowledge and my capacity, but BRK has something that I do not - a large following. For better or for worse, his name is synonymous with Hunters. And most times, he does a wonderful job of teaching and instructing. Better, in fact, than I do, IMO. I will not, however, let my respect cloud my attention to detail and pursuit of the truth.
Furthermore, BRK has gone on record stating that missing once or twice on a boss fight is "acceptable". This hurt me more than anything else that has been said in this exchange. I learned to raid in Molten Core. My first raiding experiences were with a cobbled together guild alliance that got our server's first Onyxia kill. My performance on the DPS charts, even with my sub-optimal gear, was so beyond that of the other Hunters in the raid that I was extended a guild invite and raiding position with the main guild in the alliance. We went on to defeat Molten Core, Blackwing Lair, AQ20, AQ40, Zul'Gurub, and a vast majority of Naxxramas. In my time as a pre-BC raider, I learned that Hit was the lifeblood of my DPS. I'd conceptualized it on my own, but once I was in the world of raiding, I truly started to reach out and absorb all the mathematical and analytical things I could find. I learned of the mystical 9% hit cap. I learned of how my +5 Weapon Skill as a dwarf meant that, even if a gun was a slight bit weaker, using it was a significant DPS upgrade since my hit cap was not 9% but actually 6%. I saw the results of "one miss" first-hand as we would wipe to Magmadar, Flamegor, and Huhuran because of "one miss" of a Tranquilizing Shot in a tight rotation. I learned at that time that missing was not an option.
Is raiding in BC and WotLK that twitchy? No. But does that mean it will never be again? The ideology that a miss or two is "acceptable" seems like a fallacy, especially with wonderful weapons with gobs of hit like the Savage Cobalt Slicer are available. Having loads of hit even before you need it has let me run level 80 instances at 77 - sure, I'm taking on a level 81 boss, which means I need 11% to cap. But if I have 3% from Focused Aim, 1% racially, and 7% or so from my gear, I can get there. I can DPS just as hard as an 80 and ensure 100% hits. Am I under hit-cap right now for Naxx? Yeah, a bit. But I haven't gotten ANY of the gear from the heroics I want to run. I guarantee you that once I get my trinket and belt from Keri, I'll be there.
Why say that it's okay today to miss, if down the road it won't be okay? Bad habits are exceptionally hard to break, so if you let yourself get into the mindset of "oh, it's only a heroic, I can be lazy, I don't have to do my best", you're going to get into that mindset more than you want. "Oh, it's only Naxxramas, I can be lazy..." When does it end?
I treat everything like a raid - dailies, random farming, helping lowbies through instances, or facing down the hardest boss I can access. I give 110% all the time, because if I let myself start slipping, I'm gonna slip more and more. People have told me "oh but then you don't have fun". BS. I have fun all the time. Trying to constantly push my own limits is fun. Trying to find new, inventive ways of doing what I do is fun. Being lazy is not fun. I love the rhythm of a MM raid DPS rotation. It's methodical and I could do it in my sleep. When I'm bored, I find myself tapping 3, 4, and 5 in sequence like I would if I were DPSing. So why be lazy in a heroic or when farming just because it's "easy"?
*shrug* Difference of ideology, I guess. If BRK or any of his readers reads this, I want to make one thing above all else clear - I have immense respect for BRK, and he was one fragment of the inspiration of SES. His humor and wit has always reminded me that while numbers and math are cold and unfeeling, people are not, and my writing should always have brevity and soul. He is knowledgeable, pervasive, and above all, human. We all make mistakes - what makes us who we are is how we react when they're pointed out, and whether we learn from them. God knows I've made my share.
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15 comments:
Hello! I followed you here from BRK and have seen you on Pike's blog too. I get your point and it's good of you to "put yourself out there" (so to speak) for the good of the hunter community, as BRK does too.
Somewhat offtopic, I definitely think more MM hunter blogs are needed! :D
There is something I like to tell other bloggers who have similar concerns: namely, when I say "BRK taught me how to play a hunter," I am not referring to the man so much as the whole blog. The whole blog consists of posts, and the comments, and the millions of point-counterpoint arguments that have gone on therein.
I remember when nobody believed him for post after post when he said, right around the time that BC came out, that BM did a lot of DPS. Some people simply laughed but others debated the math and the theorycrafting in the comments. And that was a good thing.
I remember later when he had one particularly controversial post about using the (old) AotV in conjunction with Rapid Fire, and not using any special shots in that period of time, and regenerating your mana that way. Most people disagreed with this, opting to keep Rapid Fire for moments of high DPS-- that stance is the one I sort of leaned towards as well. But the point was that it got people talking in the comments and testing it on their own to see if it was worth it.
Now the concern is that there are people who are not reading the comments and thus not always getting the whole "lesson" so to speak that is to be found there. It's certainly a valid concern and it's why, on my own blog, I try to stress that a.) I may not be right (unless it's something super obvious =P) and b.) you should test things out yourself. I also try to encourage commenting and discussion. Because no one person is the hunter bible.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I appreciate the comments and subsequent debates to be had by commenters and other hunter bloggers, and they do not go unappreciated by me anyway. That's one of the reasons I write my own blog. Somebody who truly wants to know more about hunters is going to dig around enough to find this vast "hunter community" of ours. I was lucky enough to wind up on BRK's sidebar link list so hopefully by linking, myself, to every good hunter blog I can find, I can help do my part in ensuring that will happen =P
BRK is probably like me. We don't gear for heroics, we gear for raids - specifically 25man raids. Gearing for heroics is like gearing for trash, we don't do it. My hit right now is 7.11%, which I consider over cap. Cap for me is 5%. I'm only over cap right now because I recently got Anarchy so I'll replace the +12 hit gem in my boots with agi.
There has always been a debate about hit caps with valid points on both sides. Yes, I've always tried to be hit capped previously but there are valid points about hit vs. other stats once hit is at 8.5% or higher.
This is not meant as an insult in any way but for me, heroics are a joke and I would in no way gear for them. When we tear through a heroic boss in a minute or less, I really couldn't care less if I miss a shot or two.
BRK is probably like me. We don't gear for heroics, we gear for raids - specifically 25man raids.
Considering he says things like "If we were planning on running Naxx tomorrow, that’s the exact enchant we would’ve gone with. But right now, we don’t have a crushing need for more Hit Rating", even when he's sitting at 4.8% Hit with NO Hit-increasing talents, I sincerely doubt that.
Druid gives 3% hit, having a draenai adds another 1%. That plus his 4.8% is 8.8%, a smidge under cap. So no, there's no crushing need for him to add hit if he's running with both, and I doubt he wouldn't have one of each in a 25man Naxx.
Druid gives 3% hit
Not since Wrath. Improved Faerie Fire is only for spell hit now.
I'd agree with you if he had Focused Aim, but he doesn't.
I'm not a fan of BRK, so I'm not completely defending him, but I do want to add that a lot of players don't run everything with 110%, not because they are particularly being lazy, but because they just want to relax sometimes and get it done without the adrenaline running/competition.
I love raiding, and when it counts or I'm in the mood for a challenge, I give my best. When I want to relax and take it easy, I pull my weight and let others take charge, not because I can't, but because I want a break. You may say this can become habit, and I'm sure it is possible for some to get stuck such a rut, but I should think (and hope) that the dedicated raiders don't allow themselves to. I know I don't. I just need a balance.
...just so you don't feel completely left out, Rilgon, I do lean more towards your views in this little debate =P But I kind of have this hit rating fetish, for better or for worse, so yeah.
All it takes is one miss in one heroic/raid/random trash mob and it pierces me to the soul. I hate it =(
I'm on Rilgon's side of this argument as well - hit is priority #1. The reason I didn't take any gear leveling was because of the tendency to loose hit.
I was really confused when I didn't miss a shot in the last heroic I ran, since I'm 2% under the talented-cap. It took a friend to remind me that the hit cap for lvl 83 is not the same for 82 and under - I'm stuck in the mind-set of raiding.
If I cared about feeling left out, I wouldn't be MM, Pike. :3
Heehee. Just figured I'd letcha know where I stand cause it occurred to me I hadn't said anything about it yet =x
We all have love-hate for BRK, I'm not even a hunter end-game and I know more about hunters from this crew than I'd care to admit generally. But people have preference, although I will state from both a Tank, a Rogue, and a Warlock standpoint, that missing is NEVER good.
I can see both sides of the argument here.
BRK is quite a bit under hit cap right now, and as I see it, it'd probably be worth it trying to bump that up a bit.
But I can also understand if you are very close to being capped (within the last 0.5% or so) it might be more worthwhile making that last gem an Agi gem rather than a hit gem. Because I think 1 miss in 200 might be less costly than extra attack power on the other 199 shots.
But that's where testing comes in. I think everyone out there, whether they are a blogger or a reader or neither should do their own testing and make their own decisions. The resources available from BRK and SES and Pike and everyone else out there are wonderful to have - even if just to build your own ideas and theories from.
I know I am going to pick up a couple of slicers when I can though ;)
- Braj
I know this post was from a few days ago, but I just wanted to give you a heads up on the latest hit rating testing. Word is the the raid boss (lvl 83) hit cap is actually 8%, not the previously believed 9%. Here's a link to the current discussion http://elitistjerks.com/f74/t37714-hit_rating/p2/
Now, despite the lowering by 1% this doesn't affect the root of the argument. In fact, for some hunters they will still want to get the 9% as the pet hit cap remains at nine.
OY! Alrighty, so we're seeing how BRK does his playstyle. I can't really argue against the balanced part and at the sametime have to admit to some degree Rilgon is correct. If your goal is endgame then you stat for endgame that includes hit.
However, the issue now seems to be what is that cap. We're leaning towards it being possibly an 8% cap and not the 9% it used to be. This was originally posted by Lactose over on EJ's and others (not to be mentioned here). And at the same time being tested over at the Lodge.
If this is true then you have an addition 1% (32.79 HR) to play with. Will keep you updated on what I find out.
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