Tuesday, September 30, 2008

For Neggles, Maevet, and anyone who will listen.

Sup. So specifically, this is a post aimed at Neggles and Maevet, but anyone's welcome to read. Specifically, it has to do with my recent trash-talking of Armor Penetration and why it's such a sub-par stat to gear for in Wrath.

We all know how Armor Penetration works now, right? You have X armor penetration, and it shaves that much armor off your current target. The more you get, the better it works, because armor is a scalar statistic - the more of it you have, the weaker gaining X more is. Conversely, the more ArPen you have, the STRONGER gaining X of it is, until your target has 0 armor.

Bosses have, usually, between 6200 and 7700 armor. I'm still trying to find an exact table of who has how much, and if anyone has one, I'd <3 you forever. But, aside from that, you have to remember that in Wrath, there's two kinds of armor reducers: Major and Minor. Sunder Armor is the most common Major Armor Reduce debuff that you'll encounter - five stacks of this is 2600 armor. Faerie Fire is the most common Minor Armor Reduce debuff of those that exist - that's another 610. Adding that up, your raid members are shaving off 3210 armor for you.

Now, before, your Armor Penetration continued to work against the armor that was left after the 3210 removed by your raid members. And this was great! The more you had, the closer you got to the Zero-Armor point, at which you're doing full damage. Sadly, however, Armor Penetration Rating changes all that.

At level 70, 7.5-ish ArPen Rating is 1% armor penetrated. Take a 6200 armor boss, like one from BT. 6200 - 3210 = 2990. Now, take a decent ArPen item... Oh, how does Steadying Bracers sound? In TBC, you're getting 105 ArPen out of them, putting you at 2885 Armor to fight against once you slip them on. However, in Wrath, they get changed to look like this. 15 Armor Penetration Rating. Now, given that it's roughly 7.5:1%, that means you'll punch through 2% of that 2990 figure. But wait! That's only 59.8 armor - only 56% as strong as it used to be! It gets worse, too. :(

Building out a armor penetration set of stuff that I see on WoWHead, I can get to 868 Armor Penetration rather easily. I'm not even really trying here. But if I turn that into ArPen Rating, that becomes 125 Rating. That's 16.6~% of the armor after debuffs that's shaved off - 498.3~ armor, in other words. Now it's down to 57% of what it used to be - the more ArPen Rating you get, the WORSE it is against an equal amount of ArPen.

And given how high things scale at 80... Ick.

Just say no to ArPen Rating (and Haste, too). :P

10 comments:

Brigwyn said...

Hey! So.. If I show you how to get the Boss Armor table I could worm my way back in your good graces? :P

Anyways, Cheeky's last spreadsheet had many of the Boss Armor stats in there as well as the new Hunter DPS Spreadsheet available at The Lodge. Shoot me an email and I'll send you the chart or link up to you. :)
- Brig

Rilgon Arcsinh said...

I have Cheeky's final revision and it does not list the options any longer. An older revision I had listed different options (from 6200 to 7700), but yeah.

And until you remove certain elements of your forum moderation staff, no, there will be no reconciliation. Sorry.

Female Dwarf Hunter said...

So then how are ArP pets going to do?

Rilgon Arcsinh said...

The armor debuffing pets (Wasp and Worm) fill a Minor and Major Armor Decrease debuff slot, respectively. Wasps work well if you are Druid-less, and Worms work well if you are Warrior-less.

Female Dwarf Hunter said...

So basically in 25mans and most 10mans too, they're useless? :(

Rilgon Arcsinh said...

For the most part, yes.

Just get a moth, they're pretty <3

Maevet said...

@FDH

They'll not be compleatly worthless.
They'll be good for say like Kara like runs where you have all priest/pally healers & Warrior tank (the pet will fill in the minor armour debuff in absence of the druid)

In situations where its say a non War. tank they'll fill in for the lack of thier armour debuff.

Not worthless, just relegated to what you bring depends on what the raid comp is. Or you bring yours as a backup debuffer. Redundancy is good in moderation.

Neggles said...

Okay, fine, Armor Ignore *was* the best hunter stat evar.

Sweet Raptor Jesus. Remember what I said about Agility/Crit in Wrath and running and running only to loose ground? This is just more evidence towards enforcing the truth of that statement.

I'll probably still be getting a wasp just to please the entomologist in me.

Female Dwarf Hunter said...

Rilgon, I wouldn't get one of those ugly things if you paid me. Not enough money in the world! YUK.

Maevet, we haven't done Kara in ages. I honestly haven't been there in at least 6 months. Can't remember the last time I did a 5man either, now that I think of it. With us concentrating on SWP now (occasional forays into BT) and 25mans come xpac, it looks like my lovely worm will be relegated to the free range farm. :(

Brigwyn said...

Hey Rilgon - Hope you got my email but just to be safe here's what I got for you.

This is where the boss info is that Cheeky & Lactose used and now Wertez and Indora for The Hunter DPS Spreadsheet.
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t16629-raid_boss_armor_values/
- Brig